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JR4 Battle Module
CanPanther



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 326
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posted: 03/12/13 00:39 
I would like to know what is going on with the JR4 Battle module. I have seen posts about it not being ported over to JR5 but, what about the JR4 release itself? The last update was quite a while ago (listed in the Modules section as 06/17/11, nearly 2 years) and it is still in beta. I believe we were told that this module, like many before it and after, was being offered at a discount while it was still in development, and purchased it on the (apparently false) assumption that it would eventually be completed.

Since it has never been out of beta, are those who have bought it stuck with it as is? Will those who have purchased it be offered a refund or, at the very least, an equivalent discount on future purchases?

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musicman1975



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 106

Posted: 03/13/13 07:20 
I agree 100%

We practically said the same thing...
http://www.jamroom.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=42054

Sad to see a good thing die

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Michael
Jamroom Team


Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 3423
Location: Tokyo

Posted: 03/13/13 17:22 

musicman1975:
....Sad to see a good thing die....


That is the whole point. We are trying to keep it alive.

Re-Read the first post here:
http://www.jamroom.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41138

Then jump in and help keep Jamroom going. Neutral


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musicman1975



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 106

Posted: 03/13/13 18:15 
Your right. there are only so many hours in a day...So that points to It being hard to abandon thousands of bands in a framework that already exists... For one that is far less functional and not ready for prime time.... Offer parity functionality on JR5 and a means to convert from 4 to 5... And then the interest is there... Otherwise we are stuck supporting JR4 because our users and paying customers are are there.

There used to be a support structure in this forum and solutions to problems offered... Now we get workarounds and that is only if we are lucky. There is a production version of JR that many of us use and earn revenue from.... To just drop that to be a hobbyist on version 5 makes no sense to us...

Things that are broken in the core and modules should at least get fixed..it's production... Paying customers expect that. I have purchased almost every module, multiple skins, conversion server.. Soooooo you can imagine the annoyance of supporting the development of something... That just stopped supporting what you invested much money, time, effort and energy in.

I do have a level of faith in the JR team to build version 5 and it be spectacular (in time)...but find it unprofessional to not stabilize version 4 for those loyal customers that purchase the solution and can't afford to be in design mode on a beta version because of the need to fullfil current customer needs.

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CanPanther



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 326
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posted: 03/13/13 19:10 

musicman1975:
but find it unprofessional to not stabilize version 4 for those loyal customers that purchase the solution in good faith and can't afford to be in design mode on a beta version because of the need to fullfil current customer needs.


Sorry, musicman, but I had to FTFY.

The JR team seems to be turning its back on the successes that have been achieved over the years and, as a result, our faith in this product is being eroded. If you hope to bring us into the future, then take care of past responsibilities first. Don't just leave them unfinished and expect people to be happy about it, especially after they have supported you financially in the past. I myself have become very leery about purchasing anything that isn't out of beta now.

Is this really the message you want to send to existing and potential customers?

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SteveX
Ultrabubble


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 8792
Location: Ultrabubble

Posted: 03/13/13 22:58 
Terry, don't buy anything ever again if you wish not to. That's your choice as a customer, obviously.

I'm probably from entirely the wrong generation of musicians and internetters, but I still don't get the idea of the battle at all. Seems like the antithesis of musical people to me, but there you go, just my understanding (lack of it) and musical experience.

Not saying that it makes no sense at all, just that it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me, and no explanation has even come close to making me more enthusiastic about this very specific cause. What thf is the point?

Must admit, I still don't have a clue as to what it is supposed to achieve. For anyone concerned.

If musicians, audiences, programmers just don't get it, who are you aiming at? - actually, that's not fair, it might just be me who doesn't get it/feel it/understand it. But maybe that is applicable in a wider sense. Or maybe not.

For me, it isn't at all interesting (given my current understanding of the thing), maybe that's the root of the problem, again, in a wider sense. Really bad ideas don't progress - this is to the benefit of customers as well.


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CanPanther



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 326
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posted: 03/14/13 01:29 

SteveX:
Terry, don't buy anything ever again if you wish not to. That's your choice as a customer, obviously.


Sigh. I guess you're right, Steve. I should stop wasting my money like this. Thank you.

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musicman1975



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 106

Posted: 03/14/13 05:57 
Abandoning fixing issues on JR 4 while people run sites on that framework and have customers is a bad idea... Speaking of bad ideas.


Man? Where is Bigguy when you need him??? He was/is fresh air and professional... Not only technically but in his customer service skill ( a rare combo for developers -- and worth it's weight in gold).. Now...there are just workarounds and being told to screw off rather than real solutions being offered and good old fashioned customer service.. That makes free will point us in a direction of not wanting to spend money twice in the same place (I.E. on this website) ...especially if the service and responses are rude,prideful, inconsiderate and suck on average.

I have been here since 2007, the gentleman also in this string (also frustrated)...
Since 2008... I am sure if you went thru our previous posts.. You would see us being appreciative.. And helpful..
Rather than cry babies... So give us a little slack... Odds are pretty good we are not the only ones that feel this way..especially since the # if people posting in the forum is in decline..

JR 4 is very good obviously.... Albeit, Declining due to lack of support... And not fixing things that are broken that previously worked..

I get it - it's never easy to build something from scratch and yes....the 2nd or 3rd time is a charm ( architecturally speaking)... But there are customers paying for JR4 still and it deserves to be supported... If its for sale, it should be supported and existing functionality upkept until there is an option to upgrade 4 to 5.

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musicman1975



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 106

Posted: 03/14/13 06:54 
Btw there is value in this module.

I used it 2 years ago..
Had a contest with 50 bands...
Gave away an opening slot at a festival
on the main stage for a band on the radio.

It generated an extra 10,000k unique visitors..
I sold extra subscriptions, songs and sold over 250 tickets to the mentioned festival..

It wa buggy and a nightmare from a module perspective...
But it got results.

Bands like to be in contests.. They even like to cheat to win... Lol

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Brian
Jamroom Team


Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 37583
Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: 03/14/13 20:03 
Can I get you guys to let me know the exact issues you are seeing with the battle mod? I know there have been some reported, but I want to get a clear idea of the exact issues so I can reproduce them here.

I will personally make sure this gets fixed up before I do any more JR5 work, as I agree - this should have been out of beta a year ago, and it is my fault it hasn't been done. It is the most complicated module we have, and the reason it's in the state it is in is due to my own reluctance to work on it, but that's not fair to you guys. So please let me know and I will make this my top priority.

Thanks!

- Brian


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musicman1975



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 106

Posted: 03/14/13 21:10 
Brian,
First off, your awesome!
It's been years since I messed with it.
to get a more exact list of issues I could do some testing if you would like?
I know your time is valuable.

The major issues I encountered were:
1) when changing various parameters of a contest it was pretty unforgiving and would cause timers for the rounds to go out of whack... The rounds would not kick off automatically sometimes.
2) it was pretty easy for folks to inflate their votes... Bands will win at any cost and try it all...

Much better controls around spamming of votes would be incredibly helpful...
Musicians are rotten when it comes to contests... And will lose all dignity for the chance
Of 15 minutes of fame... It really can get annoying to sponsors putting up a good prize to
See an IT savvy sucky band beat a radio ready polished band....

I had to throw a final round behind the login.. It helped.
But it also dropped the viral nature of the contest making it more restrictive to the end user...
And having it in the open is best... Allowing people to tell others they voted for a song by posting a link on their Facebook wall (share feature) would be a strong viral component...
Maybe bond the above with the Facebook module somehow... To help you upsell the user on that mod and vice verse...

If you go that route... An improvement to the Facebook mod would be sharing songs... So they hear the mp3 with facebooks player on the wall they shared to... Like reverbnation and soundcloud does... And promote the URL at the same time. Smile

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CanPanther



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 326
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posted: 03/15/13 02:27 
I believe I bought this before the previous programmer gave up working on it and I never had a chance to test it live as I had to stop working due to health reasons 2 years ago. And even tho' I've never pushed it the way musicman has, I've noticed the same issues with the timers getting stuck and not rolling over into the next round.

Thank you for addressing this issue, Brian. I really appreciate it.

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Brian
Jamroom Team


Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 37583
Location: Seattle, WA

Posted: 03/15/13 15:24 
Thanks for the feedback - let me know you remember enough to clarify:


musicman1975:

The major issues I encountered were:
1) when changing various parameters of a contest it was pretty unforgiving and would cause timers for the rounds to go out of whack... The rounds would not kick off automatically sometimes.


Were you changing the battle params while the battle was already ongoing?


Quote:

2) it was pretty easy for folks to inflate their votes... Bands will win at any cost and try it all...


Do you have an idea on how they were doing this? The battle mod has controls in place to try hard to prevent this - remember no solution is going to be 100% effective, since it all relies on things that can be changed (IP, user, browser, etc.). The tracking in the battle module is actually stronger than what the JR core does, so I'm not sure what else to do about this unless we know exactly how the vote racking is being bypassed.

Thanks!

- Brian


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musicman1975



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 106

Posted: 03/15/13 16:53 
Man, it was soblong ago.
Yes, More than likely the battle was running when the changes were made.

For the spammers:
I am not 100 sure how they were doing it...
people were using proxy servers to vote.

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Ambassador



Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 109

Posted: 03/15/13 19:11 
Thanks, I'm happy this is getting some attention. It really is functional, but tough if you want to customize it.

1. When Use Credit is selected on the Create Battle page, the 1 to 1 ratio appears to be off by 2 zeros. Our site is set to give 100 in credit for $1. We are wanting the entering users to have the correct Credit deducted, but receive payout just like a normal digital sale without the % deducted. So on the Create Battle page, provide an input for Credit Entry, but also Prize in $$$. If this isn't possible, then we could try to handle prizes manually on an individual basis, but we prefer the first option.

2. Get the jrLogger function added to the final ENTER BATTLE button where credit gets deducted. This way the admin could keep track of credit transactions spent on battle entries in the credit_log. Have the Action say something like "battle_entry_purchase" or something like that. I have removed the UNDO column in the credit_log to avoid "undo" discrepancies.

3. Finally, certain variables are not being passed into the templates. We hired a developer to set up a helper module to pull in the NextRoundTime and YoutubeIDs into the templates battle_view. Now the countdown and Youtube's work on both the frontend and cp views.

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